Comments on: Contextual Conducting – pros and cons http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/ News and Stories from Artist-Teacher-Scholars Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:44:44 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: greg http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2428 greg Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:44:57 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2428 I find contextual conducting extraordinarily helpful. It enables me to maintain a consistent pulse. It also gives me the ability to decipher complex rhythms. I am no longer intimidated by Bona!! I also find the "tempo measure" method helpful. If I use a measure with a great deal of 32nd or 64th notes as the base tempo for the exercise, then the pulse/tempo of the exercise will be more consistent. I find contextual conducting extraordinarily helpful. It enables me to maintain a consistent pulse. It also gives me the ability to decipher complex rhythms. I am no longer intimidated by Bona!! I also find the “tempo measure” method helpful. If I use a measure with a great deal of 32nd or 64th notes as the base tempo for the exercise, then the pulse/tempo of the exercise will be more consistent.

]]> By: jdsahn http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2421 jdsahn Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:54:58 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2421 I find that contextual conducting helps to narrow-down and pinpoint each rhythmic nuances and subdivisions much more accurately. Perhaps the downside of contextual conducting, for me, as you've aforementioned, is that it is another additional element on which I must concentrate. I find that contextual conducting helps to narrow-down and pinpoint each rhythmic nuances and subdivisions much more accurately. Perhaps the downside of contextual conducting, for me, as you’ve aforementioned, is that it is another additional element on which I must concentrate.

]]> By: mayjoshua http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2418 mayjoshua Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:42:46 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2418 I think that contextual conducting helps significantly with rhythmic solidarity. The solfege class was able to move into very complex rhythms, while keeping active the solfege syllables. The application to the various vocal projects was quite significant. The conducting allowed the students a continued improvement toward solfege accuracy with rhythmic definition. I think that contextual conducting helps significantly with rhythmic solidarity. The solfege class was able to move into very complex rhythms, while keeping active the solfege syllables. The application to the various vocal projects was quite significant. The conducting allowed the students a continued improvement toward solfege accuracy with rhythmic definition.

]]> By: agreen http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2411 agreen Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:02:41 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2411 It is interesting, Joan, that you should mention Furtwaengler as the first conductor with a good technique in contextual conducting. I was taught that Mendelssohn made conducting a real art form, and it is a shame that we do not have video of how he acheived this. At the same time, to conduct some Beethoven Symphonies must have required some sort of gestures remeniscent of contextual conducting, perhaps not in the performance, but at least in the rehearsal. On the opposite side of this spectrum, there was a conductor, I was told, who only used his eyes. What type of conducting would this be? The British composer Ferneyhough has a point mentioning the increasing complexity of the orchestral score. But there is a striking phenomena that accompanies what you mention: as scores became more complex, conductors rely more on teaching the musical aspects of a piece - structure, architecture, design, intervallic relationships, inner and outer voices - during rehearsals, and only use the conducting as an allignment tool. Especially in works like "The Rite" or "Le marteaus sans maitre" or even "Available Forms II", where each of these pieces poses vastly different problems in ensemble, the performers have really no time to utilize a conductor for putting certain phrases into a musical context. When I studied contemporary conducting at Boston University with Theodore Antioniou - the primary conductor of the ALEA III ensemble, and a big conductor in Greece - he told me that something like Schumann's 2nd is harder to conduct than something like Octandre because ensemble is really all that's needed when conducting Octandre, but in Schumann's second, you really have to bring each musician on the same emotional plane. I think contextual conducting really helps with that aspect of the music. I wouldn't say that contextual conducting is "absolutely non-existent" with Strauss. Do we really know what other things the other hand did when necessary, and how necessary was the other hand? And Tony, with regards to double-dotting - some conductors want the extreme double-dotting, and some want the exact 1 to 3 proportion of the gesture. It's wonderful how you articulate that contextual conducting may take away a certain freedom in this gesture. At the same time, the gesture should be consistent throughout the performance, and contextual conducting can be utilized for both of these different feelings. Furthermore, contextual conducting can solidify this consistency much moreso than normal, pattern-beating conducting. When to use it seems to be an important question for many of Professor Scripp's methods. Perhaps it should be up to the students and non-biased observers to provide answers. It is interesting, Joan, that you should mention Furtwaengler as the first conductor with a good technique in contextual conducting. I was taught that Mendelssohn made conducting a real art form, and it is a shame that we do not have video of how he acheived this. At the same time, to conduct some Beethoven Symphonies must have required some sort of gestures remeniscent of contextual conducting, perhaps not in the performance, but at least in the rehearsal. On the opposite side of this spectrum, there was a conductor, I was told, who only used his eyes. What type of conducting would this be?

The British composer Ferneyhough has a point mentioning the increasing complexity of the orchestral score. But there is a striking phenomena that accompanies what you mention: as scores became more complex, conductors rely more on teaching the musical aspects of a piece – structure, architecture, design, intervallic relationships, inner and outer voices – during rehearsals, and only use the conducting as an allignment tool. Especially in works like “The Rite” or “Le marteaus sans maitre” or even “Available Forms II”, where each of these pieces poses vastly different problems in ensemble, the performers have really no time to utilize a conductor for putting certain phrases into a musical context. When I studied contemporary conducting at Boston University with Theodore Antioniou – the primary conductor of the ALEA III ensemble, and a big conductor in Greece – he told me that something like Schumann’s 2nd is harder to conduct than something like Octandre because ensemble is really all that’s needed when conducting Octandre, but in Schumann’s second, you really have to bring each musician on the same emotional plane. I think contextual conducting really helps with that aspect of the music.

I wouldn’t say that contextual conducting is “absolutely non-existent” with Strauss. Do we really know what other things the other hand did when necessary, and how necessary was the other hand?

And Tony, with regards to double-dotting – some conductors want the extreme double-dotting, and some want the exact 1 to 3 proportion of the gesture. It’s wonderful how you articulate that contextual conducting may take away a certain freedom in this gesture. At the same time, the gesture should be consistent throughout the performance, and contextual conducting can be utilized for both of these different feelings. Furthermore, contextual conducting can solidify this consistency much moreso than normal, pattern-beating conducting.

When to use it seems to be an important question for many of Professor Scripp’s methods. Perhaps it should be up to the students and non-biased observers to provide answers.

]]> By: joanarnaupamies http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2410 joanarnaupamies Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:13:23 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2410 I was studying some orchestral conductors during their performances, and I realized that contextual conducting is something relatively new. Until Furtwängler we cannot find conductors with a very good technique in contextual conducting, and in my opinion, a few are good contextual conductors –Toscanini and Karajan were very good at this. Therefore, does that mean that the performances of the classical repertoire during the early XX century were worse than today ones? I do not think so. According to the articles written by English composer Brian Ferneyhough, I also think that orchestral music became more sophisticated since the 50s, with the scores by composers like Boulez, Ligeti, Carter or even Stravinsky, and of course conductors had to change/improve their technique in order to make a better performance of those “harder” works. But, at the same time, if we listen to a performance of a Richard Strauss piece (where the complexity is everywhere) conducted by himself (as Karl Böhm, he was a partisan of conducting only the beats with one hand and using the other hand “only when it is necessary”), we realize that the performance is amazing, and contextual conducting is absolutely nonexistent. Therefore: Do we need to use contextual conducting? When do we have to use it? For me, contextual conducting is just a tool to place the subdivisions of a beat in their right place. I think that this type of conducting helps a lot more the orchestra player, but also conductors have to be very intelligent and have to know perfectly when they have to use it or not. As Tony Rymer said in his reply, it is not always necessary to use contextual conducting: we do not want always “things on their right place”. I was studying some orchestral conductors during their performances, and I realized that contextual conducting is something relatively new. Until Furtwängler we cannot find conductors with a very good technique in contextual conducting, and in my opinion, a few are good contextual conductors –Toscanini and Karajan were very good at this.
Therefore, does that mean that the performances of the classical repertoire during the early XX century were worse than today ones? I do not think so.
According to the articles written by English composer Brian Ferneyhough, I also think that orchestral music became more sophisticated since the 50s, with the scores by composers like Boulez, Ligeti, Carter or even Stravinsky, and of course conductors had to change/improve their technique in order to make a better performance of those “harder” works.
But, at the same time, if we listen to a performance of a Richard Strauss piece (where the complexity is everywhere) conducted by himself (as Karl Böhm, he was a partisan of conducting only the beats with one hand and using the other hand “only when it is necessary”), we realize that the performance is amazing, and contextual conducting is absolutely nonexistent.
Therefore: Do we need to use contextual conducting? When do we have to use it?
For me, contextual conducting is just a tool to place the subdivisions of a beat in their right place. I think that this type of conducting helps a lot more the orchestra player, but also conductors have to be very intelligent and have to know perfectly when they have to use it or not. As Tony Rymer said in his reply, it is not always necessary to use contextual conducting: we do not want always “things on their right place”.

]]> By: tonyrymer http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/comment-page-1/#comment-2408 tonyrymer Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:33 +0000 http://mieatnec.org/blog/2007/12/08/contextual-conducting-pros-and-cons/#comment-2408 While contextual conducting ensures that rhythm will be executed precisely, it can sometimes be detremental to the music. Not always does one want the rhythm to be played exactly as written. In the Allemande of Bach's fifth cello suite, for example, there are many different ways to play the dotted eighth folled by sixteenth note figure. It can be played so that the dotted eighth is exactly three times longer than the sixteenth note, or double dotted so that the sixteenth note sounds like a thirtysecond note and every length inbetween. It is the performers choice what duration to give the notes but no matter what the length is there should be a feeling of foward motion. Contextual conducting detracts from this feeling if the beat is subdivided for the placement of the sixteenth note; however, if contextual conducting is not used and each beat gets an emphasis and the sixteenth note is felt as a pickup to the next beat then the true musical intentions of the rhythm can be realized. While contextual conducting ensures that rhythm will be executed precisely, it can sometimes be detremental to the music. Not always does one want the rhythm to be played exactly as written. In the Allemande of Bach’s fifth cello suite, for example, there are many different ways to play the dotted eighth folled by sixteenth note figure. It can be played so that the dotted eighth is exactly three times longer than the sixteenth note, or double dotted so that the sixteenth note sounds like a thirtysecond note and every length inbetween. It is the performers choice what duration to give the notes but no matter what the length is there should be a feeling of foward motion. Contextual conducting detracts from this feeling if the beat is subdivided for the placement of the sixteenth note; however, if contextual conducting is not used and each beat gets an emphasis and the sixteenth note is felt as a pickup to the next beat then the true musical intentions of the rhythm can be realized.

]]>